Ep. 69: Overcoming Growth Challenges: A Playbook for Scaling Organizations Successfully

Liat Nachmani | Chief People Officer I Executive Coach

Liat Nachmani is a seasoned leader and expert in scaling startups, with a proven track record at companies like Zerto, Anobit, and Apple Israel. Passionate about growth, she specializes in overcoming leadership challenges, building empowered teams, and creating sustainable systems to thrive in high-growth environments. Her insights have helped organizations navigate the chaos of scaling with confidence and success.

Liat Nachmani’s insights provide a roadmap for leaders navigating the complexities of scaling. Addressing common challenges and implementing her playbook can create a thriving culture supporting sustainable growth.

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Answered on this Episode

• How can leadership shift their mindset to focus on long-term strategy during high-growth phases in organizations?

  
  

• What practical steps can leaders take to empower their teams and avoid bottlenecks?

  
  

• How can leaders balance the speed of execution with the need for proactive strategic planning?

Advice From Liat

1. Be Persistent and Adaptable: Mindset shifts don’t happen overnight. Tailor your communication to resonate with individual leaders, using data and real-life examples to gain buy-in.

   
   

2. Empower Teams Through Delegation: Avoid bottlenecks by delegating effectively and trusting your team. Provide managers with the tools to think strategically and lead independently.

   
   

3. Lead Authentically: Embrace your unique strengths as a leader. Authenticity builds trust and fosters a culture of collaboration and growth.

Connect with Liat: LinkedIn

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Find This Conversation

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Full Transcript

Liat Nachmani | Overcoming Growth Challenges: A Playbook for Scaling Organizations Successfully

Aaron Levy: [00:00:00] Today, we're lucky to have global leader Liat Nachmani. Liat is an expert at scaling and growing startups, and it is a self-proclaimed passion of hers. She's just gone from scale up to scale up to scale up. She worked at Anobit and then Apple Israel, then Zerto, then Aqua, then HoneyBook, and now she's taken on her next adventure as well.

And we had a really interesting conversation about what it takes to scale an organization and also what it takes to shift the mindset and gain buy in from your executives as the company needs to grow and mature and scale. Liat shares a playbook for how to get executive buy in and how to get executive mindset changes, which I found incredibly fascinating and powerful.

I know you'll enjoy it and get some really good gold nuggets out of this. So, take a listen.

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Liat, I'm so excited to have you on. I feel like it was ages ago when we had our first conversation and got to just hear your exciting and interesting story and journey. I can't wait for others to hear it. Thank you for coming.

Liat Nachmani: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Aaron Levy: When we first talked, you mentioned you knew, early on that you wanted to lead HR for a tech company.

And so, you pursued that and as a bachelor of science, behavioral science what I'm wondering is like, what. drove you to take that career path?

What inspired that career path?

Cause I don't often see that with tech people leaders anymore. They come from different domains, different spaces, but you knew you wanted this right away.

What drove that for you?

Liat Nachmani: Oh, that's a great question. I think early on and in my probably natural skills, I'm inclining toward people in general, and I get. Energized and enthusiastic by even by just the simple having conversations with people and getting to know them and getting to know what driving them.

That was, I think, the general idea that I had in mind when I thought [00:02:00] about HR leadership role. retrospective, I think I knew nothing. But I had a goal in mind, and I imagined my role to be exactly like that; it's still part of the job, but the job is way more broader than just having conversations and connections that are really meaningful with people.

But that was the initial, really natural skill and main driver for me back then.

Aaron Levy: And as you've been in the roles and you've noticed the change, what's the biggest surprise or even maybe like the biggest challenge of the breadth of a role of a people leader?

Liat Nachmani: Oh well, I think my role evolved over the years.

And I started, so there's a lot of elements when I think about your question, starting with a scope of role, but also my personal growth and development as. A person and as a [00:03:00] leader with a different companies and challenges that I was facing. So, I think, my first people leadership role was with Anobit Technologies.

And that particular company was a scale up company. My first scale up company, I think I need to mention because since then I was like, it's a passion that I cannot, I cannot turn off. It's that's my main driver in life scale up companies. So, I learned that about myself. That was like something that was happening external to me.

That was the nature of the company. I didn't know that I'm passionate about scale ups before Anobit. So, I came with that notion, I'll get to know people, I'll make meaningful connections with people. I'll do, of course, the must haves like hiring and make sure that we have all the fundamentals in place. And that particular company, Anobit I joined them early on when I [00:04:00] think I was the 45th employee in the company reporting to the CEO and we were hiring like very selectively super, super smart engineer.

And that was like a very meaningful part of my job there to make sure that we hire, and we had that slogan we hire smart people with great heart, like big heart. And that was that combination. And it was like, I think prior to those, startup, cool startup that had values in place that would, at least in Israel, people were not talking about like creating a core values, corporate used to have core values back then I'm talking about 2008 so we didn't have a clear values and DNA mentality, but it was like hiring smart and very good people, that was the main driver.

I had the opportunity to scale with a company. So, to [00:05:00] help them hire the right people. And I have to be honest here and mentioned that it was an easy job. It wasn't a hard job with Anobit Technologies because the three founders were all technical elite, you need graduates with

electronic engineering degrees, and they were very famous and known for who they are, what they bring to the table in specifically in image processing and algorithm systems. And it made my life easier in terms of attracting key talent. So, like the internal referral program was working smoothly.

I didn't need to generate like candidates and create an employer branding because it's, it just worked like through the network, through the, internal network. We scaled to 300

[00:06:00] We scaled to 300 over three years. So, from 45 to 300. And at that point we got acquired by Apple. It was the first acquisition for Apple outside the U.S. We're now at 20, 2011. And I was offered to take the role of leading HR for Apple Israel. And I was doing that for two years. I think I knew early on that would be an awesome experience in terms of Learning and learning how a corporate work and I'm a person that is driven by challenges.

So, I really liked the fact that there will be challenges off acquisitions. So, the end of the technology acquisition alongside with other two startups acquisition over one year and a half. We got to you. 1500 employees. So, it's got from 300 to 1500 employees. But at some point, it got [00:07:00] like more off a reporting function rather than influential strategic function. And that was the point that I was ready for the next gig.

Aaron Levy: What you said, like you found your passion for scaling what excited you so much about that journey of going from 50 to 500 or whatever that range is that, that got you excited, like, what triggered that passion for you?

Liat Nachmani: It's the intensity on one hand, the fact that my work is very dynamic because of that. It's like you, you tend to keep the same title if I can switch to Zerto because Zerto I think was the key. Place that made a shift in how I think about managing people and managing a function. So, it was a transition from being a manager to becoming a leader of people.

And that was a very painful one. So, it's like you keep the same title, but you [00:08:00] have to. Adjust and shift the way you do things and always be proactive. Keep a high pace in order to stay relevant at the fast pace journey. And with Zerto, it was like, it was, I think every six months or so that I felt I went through the same cycle over and over again.

And the cycle was like. I'm not doing a good enough job. I'm lousy at my work. Then I spiraled down. That was like my personnel process. Spiraled down. I felt not good enough. And then, I think after a week or so, typically I came out of this spiraled down to spiraling up and that was through, okay, I need to create a plan on how I'm bridging the gap, because it's every six months or so my [00:09:00] challenges became larger and very different than anything I knew before. So, I had to reinvent myself every few months cause doing the same thing. I, for example, first time. To hire in one year, 400 people. How do I do that? I used to do 50 hires a year, not 400 or 500. So how do I approach that? And it was of course, combined with other challenges.

So how do I keep people on boarded and how do I keep people happy? And all of that, and the responsibility of doing everything in a very fast pace. Thanks. It was exciting, but it was painful, and I liked that because it stretched me.

Aaron Levy: And, the thing that I've always seen about scaling is it's incredibly painful because it's stretching everybody.And so, if it's stretching you at the most senior people role how is it stretching the [00:10:00] 501st person that was just hired or the engineering manager, who's now leading a team of 10 when they were just doing the work six months ago. And so, what have you learned helps to keep the culture performing and keep

the team engaged, happy is a nice thing, but keep them engaged in performing as you scale. And as the business changes so rapidly from one size to another.

Liat Nachmani: Yeah. So, there were a couple of things that helped us. On one hand, you need to move very fast and it's very tempting to deal with the day to day tactical because you can work 24 seven on just closing tactical day to day urgent things.

That was a key element on how we operated. But then allowing ourself and making the senior leadership aware that we must find a way to step out of that day to day.

[00:11:00] From time to time reflect and become more proactive in planning forward and it was relevant for me as well as it was relevant for the CEO and it's like you're flying a plane and you're trying to fix the engines during the same time that was the main challenges you for I think each and every leader in the org, including myself.

So, it's finding and allocating time to brainstorm, to think about what we're doing well and what we're doing. Not so well, and how we are proactively planning toward changing that.

Aaron Levy: Yeah, it sounds… it makes sense. Imagine we're talking to, which we are, people who are in your shoes, right? At that spot. And they like, we know I need to, I know we need to slow down to speed up. How the heck do you do that.

What are some things that you've done or put in [00:12:00] place within the organization that help other? Yeah. To allow other leaders to do that. When everyone's saying, we got to hit goal, we got to do this.

Or when we raise our next round, then we can do that. Like, how do you get them? To do that, to pause, to reflect, to plan and create it differently because it's not the nature that got them there.

Liat Nachmani: So, I think I was lucky enough at that point to establish good rapport with CEO and senior leadership.

And that helped a lot helped a lot in terms of shifting the mindset through conversations first. And it sounds simple, but it's not. It, I think at some point it was, okay, Liat, it's like they were tired to hear me. And they just said, okay, do whatever you want. Just like probably leave us alone.

And I took that. For me, it was, they're not objecting to a change. Which is good enough for me. And I engaged with an external advisor [00:13:00] that together we were like brainstorming on the key elements of the problem, like the organizational problem that I'm noticing. And we build a training program for all managers.

So, starting with the first line managers, first time managers through the CEO. And it. Was like, regardless to where they were located globally, because we had different, like 20 something locations. So, we were doing a tour and like physically onsite meeting people for three days and running the same program.

That particular year was the goal was how do we. Become better leaders by thinking and planning strategically. And how do we as leaders empower our team members? Cause that's, I think the other element that we noticed are organizationally that is blocking us from being more successful, because if you're not empowering [00:14:00] the people that reports to you to do their thing, you're get stuck on whatever you're doing on your own and you're not delegating.

Aaron Levy: One thing that I see a lot. In chief people officers and heads of people is them identifying the problem, as you said, and knowing Hey, we need to do something. The challenge is shifting that mindset of the leadership team.

So, as you talked about it, and this could be across any of your journeys, what have you seen has worked to help shift the mindset or even things that, that like you thought would work that didn't work?

Liat Nachmani: So, I'll start with what I've seen that was helpful. The thing that I saw with different leaders that was helpful in shifting their mindset was being persistent. Being persistent, it's like not giving up because it's never, ever worked for me on my first try. And also changing approaches and arguments as [00:15:00] to why we need that by noticing what drives the other person in front of me.

That was also very helpful. So, for example, if the CEO is very data driven, I'll find data that is supporting what I'm trying to say. Cause if I'll just talk by that's what I'm sensing, he won't buy into what I'm saying. So being persistent, providing the real-life examples that are positive and negative was also helpful.

And engaging with other leaders that can help me to achieve the same goal.

Aaron Levy: I love that persistence, knowing what drives them and approaching it based on the way that they look at it, which, one of the things that, I talk about often is what's in it for the CEO, what do they care about?

How does it help them reach their strategic goals? I also think though, that you said this in a unique way, which is not just what's in it for them, but what language do they speak, right? If they're data [00:16:00] driven, then bring them the data, right? If they need to see stories, then give them the story, like what they need to see, not just address it in the ROI or in the dollars and cents, but also in the way in which they need to see the dollars and cents.

And so that's a huge one. Real life examples finding allies.

Do you have any stories or any fun nuggets of real-life examples that you saw just. Hit the nerve of a CEO or an executive team.

Liat Nachmani: The story that comes to mind was on my, I think first year at Zerato where I thought they were using like agencies all the time.

So, a hundred. Percent of the hires was leaning on agencies. And I thought that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And we're spending a lot of money probably, and I can create more efficiency here. And when I shared that with the CEO he said, I think it's working well for us and I don't want to change that, and then I [00:17:00] asked the Y and then a Y and a Y, and we got to the pace of things.

As well as his belief that it doesn't cost him so much, but it wasn't based on facts. So, I went and collected all the data. It was like historically before I came, collected all the invoices and work with the controller to come up with a math behind what's the cost of an average hire combined with conversations with leaders that we're hiring directly with the agency. So, there were no talent acquisition team, and that function that it wasn't existing in the company. When I brought him the data, and combined with one story from one of the managers that said, it's not saving me time. It's the exact opposite.

I'm spending a lot of time having useless conversations with candidates that I could [00:18:00] tell on, like before even jumping on the call, they don't have the qualifications for what I'm looking for. It will be very helpful if someone else will take that from me and my time will be dedicated for developing the product.

So, I shared both with the CEO and then he said, okay, you can hire a talent acquisition partner and let's see. Let's see how it works. And that was good enough. It was good enough. That was the beginning of a big talent acquisition team.

Aaron Levy: Yeah. And I love that story because, it combines the, hey, I got the data and I provided the data, but I didn't just use that as my only source, right?

Like I told a story of someone who was feeling the pain to contradict what the CEO was thinking or seeing. I love that. Yeah. Another domain I'm curious about is, as you. Talked about this building, finding allies. Are there any common themes or common traits or common roles that you go into a company, like as you go to look at your next role and you're like, okay, I need to build allyship with the [00:19:00] CFO and the CMO or whatever it is,

where are the best allies? Or what makes a great ally? Maybe that's the better question.

What makes a great ally?

Liat Nachmani: My, I don't know why my gut response to that is I know that I have to have good collaboration and I need to have the CFO as an ally to me. And that was at least for me, it was built in pain.

Cause normally. People function leaders and CFOs come from different domains and their motivations are driven to other directions. And it took me a while to speak the language of the CFO, but I think it's deeper than that. It was, it took me a while to understand that if I will build good and healthy collaboration with a CFO, I'll be more successful in what I'm trying to do and I'll achieve more.

And we together can achieve more for the [00:20:00] company rather than us butting heads. But I learned that once, and so that's the first, I think, person I'm looking at when I'm considering a new role. Besides the CEO, I will look at the CFO, I will Speak to them and make sure that they see eye to eye on how important is that partnership with the people function and I think the other one there's no particular other one the CRO go to market leaders are important as the head of Products or head of engineering.

And for me, they were all like important at the same level, but different probably times because there were like times where we had problems on the go to market. So, you had to have the relationship in place in order to Help them and the same [00:21:00] goes to when we had issues in the product. So, in my mind, you must have, I think that's the basis and it's not easy.

It sounds easy when I'm saying that it's not that easy. You

need to work.

Aaron Levy: No. Yeah. I'm curious if you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice, give the future you one piece of advice. What would you tell yourself?

Liat Nachmani: Wow. I think the first thing I'll tell myself is you can bring your authentic persona to the table. Cause that was also a journey for me to bring my authentic persona to the table. It was like, I think the first leadership role was coping other leaders. behaviors because I didn't know what I didn't know.

So, I was trying to copy others. I had, of course, the imposter syndrome and I was tougher than I think I really am trying to prove something, which [00:22:00] for myself today, I'll say, you don't need that. You can be yourself. It can be yourself. It can be your authentic self, sensitive on one hand, but also high standards as you are.

And that combination works really well.

Aaron Levy: It's a freeing feeling. Allow yourself to just be yourself. Oh, I love it. This was such a wonderful conversation. As we said at the start who knew where this was going to go? And I love the exploration of, because it is a, it's a unique challenge, that people leaders face of how do we shift or challenge the mindsets of our executives who can, sometimes get in their own way and how do we help them not get in their own way. And I think some of the things you talked about as it's almost like a playbook, persistence speak in their language use real examples. And find other allies.

I think that's a playbook I'm going to share with friends when they bring it up next. Cause that's a, that is a conversation that happens frequently. So, thank you. Thank you for [00:23:00] your journey, for sharing, for being vulnerable and honest. And I'm excited to hear where you go next and what you do in the next scale up that you decide to take on.

Liat Nachmani: promise to update you. And thank you for having me.