Oshrat Binyamin | HR Executive | Scaling Expert
Oshrat Binyamin is a seasoned people executive with a passion for building and scaling businesses. With over 15 years of experience in organizational growth, she has played a pivotal role in helping companies scale, from her time at Monday.com, where she helped grow the team from 650 to over 1,600 employees and navigated an IPO, to her current role as Head of HR at Connecteam.
In this conversation, Oshrat shares invaluable insights into what it truly takes to build and scale teams effectively, how to navigate the growing pains of an expanding organization, and why leadership is not just about growth—but about building teams that thrive because they are adaptable, empowered, and future-ready.
Answered on this Episode
How can leaders ensure they have the right people to take their company to the next phase?
How can leaders balance high standards with empathy to keep teams engaged?
What should companies focus on to sustain growth while maintaining efficiency?
Advice From Oshrat
Hire smart, not just fast
Many companies rush to fill roles, but true scaling comes from hiring the right people at the right time, while holding onto team members that have the capacity to grow with your company. Focus on strategic hiring that aligns with long-term goals rather than simply meeting headcount targets.
Growth brings pains—embrace It
Scaling from 70 to 300+ employees means shifts in leadership, structure, and culture. Companies must reassess roles, processes, and expectations constantly to avoid stagnation.
Treat "leadership" like a profession - develop It
Being promoted doesn’t make someone an effective leader. Invest in mentorship, leadership training, and role clarity to help managers set expectations, measure success, and build strong teams.
Build teams that thrive by balancing empathy and accountability
Great leaders set clear expectations that create a sense of order while creating a culture of trust and support. Employees thrive when they feel both challenged and valued—it’s not an either-or.
Connect with Oshrat: LinkedIn
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Full Transcript
Scale Smarter: Building Teams That Thrive In Growth Phases
Aaron (00:00)
Today we have Oshrat Binyamin, a seasoned people executive with a passion for building and scaling. Oshrot has been a part of organization scaling for the last 15 years. In her last role at Monday.com, she helped lead the team's growth from 650 to over 1,600 employees through their IPO process. Oshrot is now the head of HR at Connecteam and is back in build mode. In today's podcast, we discuss what it takes to get into build mode and then what it takes to take a team through that awkward teenage years of maturation and scaling.
Not just scaling in the number of people, but scaling in the way we think about our teams, we think about leadership, and we think about growing individuals. This is really fun, interesting, dynamic conversation. I know you'll enjoy.
Cheers.
Aaron (01:36)
so excited to have you here. Looking forward to this conversation, at least to have this conversation recorded. Our last conversation was really fun and I felt like I learned a bunch through that. So, Oshrot, it's a pleasure to have you officially on the podcast.
Oshrat (01:48)
Pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Aaron (01:51)
Thank you for spending part of your evening with me as I spend part of my morning. When we talked last, you mentioned this, and it was clearly that came out of you, this desire to build things. Like you said, I like to build things. I have more fun building, not just leading. Tell me what makes building so much fun for you.
Oshrat (02:07)
I think it's the part where you feel you have the ownership or the place to, it's like a painting in my opinion, where you have really the opportunity to craft something that is based on your beliefs, your perspective, your personal agenda, and you're not doing it on your own. You're doing it with partners, with people that you found as the right fit to.
move along the way and it can be the part of your leadership team or the team that you manage. And that's part of the way I see it looking on something that becomes real. Whether it's a company that is already running and you just need to scale it up or if it's a new organization or something you build totally from scratch and you see it keeps evolving over time, I think that's the huge benefit of building something.
I'm feeling that you have your name and your team's name on it. in a way, I wouldn't say a legacy because that's a big word, but you have the opportunity to really shape things up. And if I take it to the organizational point of view, it helps other organizations or team to be their best version. So the building parts really enables companies to keep on growing to do more stuff to be successful. I think that's basically the thing.
Aaron (03:27)
When did you know or was there a moment that sparked and it could be when you were a kid, it could be any point in your career where you identified or were able to put language around, oh, I love this, this part of work and life.
Oshrat (03:42)
I usually tell about myself that practical person. And I that kind of mindset, it's something that is with me since childhood. when I look on things, whether it's a personal project within my family or my kids or with my husband, or whether something at work.
I think I always see it as a my mind in a way really breaks it down into items and details and how you take it forward to something practical you can actually see something tangible. I think that is something that no matter where you take me, whether it's my personal lives or my career, that's part of the journey. think
The theme of flow, when you are in a flow of something and you feel that it's something that you're good at, I think that's the piece of building things. That's the piece where I feel the most natural and I like to see something like building the blocks and making something looks real, tangible, so other people can really use it and enjoy it.
Aaron (04:40)
Love a flow is such way to be into work and it's elusive, it's hard to catch. Have you found or noticed anything that helps you get or trigger flow more frequently in the work that you do?
Oshrat (04:52)
An interesting question. I think usually happens retroactively, which means I usually do things and then when I analyze that a bit or digest, I understand it was actually fun. One of the things I did, I think it was a year ago, is to try and identify my zone of genius. What are the areas where I feel the best
version of me. And I think one of those was, building stuff, but also speaking in front of audience mentoring sharing my experience. And I think those two, themes of presenting something and building something that connects to me.
How do I see it? I feel the level of energy going up. I feel that I really enjoy being in the it's hard because when we're always focused on the doing part and not on the being part, it's hard to identify what clicks. you can feel. from within. And then also the feedback you get from the environment, the interaction that you have with people when you're in a flow and your energy goes up it really corresponds with the environment.
Aaron (05:56)
So it's no surprise you spent 15 plus years of your life in the tech space given your practical desire to build things and to continue building things. You've been a part of how many scale-ups? Four or five different scale-ups at all different phases at this point?
Yeah, it's the fourth scale up. so, you've grown teams from, you know, low hundreds to several thousands and in the mid hundreds to thousands at monday.com. And I'm just lessons have you learned works to scale an organization as you think about, like, how do we keep these teams performing? How do we keep these teams effective when growth is happening so frequently?
Oshrat (06:43)
So when we speak about scaling up companies, we always go naturally to the first phase, which is hiring. And you always will hear in scaling up organizations, let's hire fast, let's meet our hiring flank as soon as possible. I don't think that hiring is actually the thing. I think it's more of understanding who do you hire and how the structure will look like and what is the framework that you're building and how every person that you hire really connects to the bigger picture in order to really create a framework that helps the company to scale up. And I think that the difference between just saying not only hire fast, but hire smart.
Understand in advance who are the people that you need, in which roles, what are the expertise that are missing within your organization, how you can support that with your hiring strategy, not only through hiring, I think when a company really scales, everything tends to break up again and again and again. there's a tendency to see HR teams or HR leaders as the people that come with the mindset of, okay, let's bring processes, let's bring systems and methodologies to play in place. then
At some points, it may look that we interfere with the business and not enable the business to grow. And I think one of the lessons that I had as a nature leader is ask myself every time I start a process or I build a new infrastructure in place, what is the value it's creating and who are the people that this process is going to serve?
And how are we going in the right direction in terms of really enabling the company to grow to the right place. And I can tell that if I, one of the lessons when I look previously on my career is understanding that at some point as a more junior HR, I felt adding processes or working according to the textbook that HR is in a way required to hold, that's what I need to do. And it took me some time and several years to really understand that it doesn't have to be the textbook that HR needs to have.
You need to understand what the company really needs from you. What is the culture? What do the people expect from you? And then coordinate accordingly and build really what's relevant and let go some of the beliefs or some of the areas where, okay, maybe the textbook says a scaling up or hyper growing company needs to have that, but it doesn't really mean you have to do that.
So I think that's one of the lesson my journey, but also from a personal perspective, when I look at myself as a leader, think it took me some time to understand the power of having a strong team that you work with. And I'm speaking about the team I manage, the team that I have to run through the journey with. And there were times where I didn't really understand the importance of having strong people that can lead with me, that can win with me.
And I think now when I look at my team, I really focus on having the right people around me, people that can think together with me, that can push forward, that I feel comfortable with because eventually the work I do is the work of my team. And if I don't have strong people and people to rely on,
I wouldn't be able to help and serve the business as an HR leader. So I think this is one of my strongest lessons out of my career. And also from personal point of view, another point of view is sometimes as a person and also as an executive, you don't really understand the volume of the work that you are required to do the amount of things you need to deal with. And at some point, when I look on one of the companies.
For example, I worked for, it became bigger and bigger every month the company continued to scale. And looking retrospectively now on my time there, I can definitely acknowledge that if I had taken a mentor at some or someone I can speak up with, I can consult with, someone that has been there, has done that journey before me, I think I would got some lessons or some advices that would have been tremendously helpful for me.
And I think now when I'm looking on other people that run the same journey, one of the advices I give them is take a mentor or speak with people, learn, try to learn from others because they've done that journey already.
And they know the mistakes and don't assume that you know everything on your end, like alone and try to find the people that can really lead you there. I can tell you that in some points, I feel, I wouldn't say a failure, a way of missing something, a way of looking on my career and saying,
I'm not sure I had everything I could in that specific role or in that specific period within the company. And if I knew that then, maybe it would have been different. So I think taking a mentor and surround yourself with strong people that can really help you get through the journey, I think those are the lessons I'm taking with me.
Aaron (11:50)
What's an example of a lesson that you had to learn the hard way that you wish a mentor might have helped you see around the corner to?
Oshrat (11:59)
So I think first of all, acknowledging importance of relationships, the importance of building, collaboration within the organization and understanding who are the people that can, on one hand, support you, but on the other hand, can really leverage your experience and together build something greater.
I think that is something that I learned through my career. But also giving snapshot of how it looks like. For example, if I'm looking on a company that grew from 400 to 700 or 700 how does it look like in 1000? What are the things that I need to build now today in order to be prepared for the next stage and I see it all the time, not only in my work, but it also with the leaders I'm supporting the leadership team, I'm part It's very hard to know now what you need to do in order to build the organization or even build yourself as a professional towards the next scale up.
So if someone could have shown me in a way, how will it look like a year or two from now? I think that would be extremely helpful.
Aaron (13:10)
Yeah, and with the team that you're on now, you've grown from 70 to what? A couple hundred employees? 300. And what's the growth plan there? 300 to what? What's the next big leap?
Oshrat (13:17)
So it depends. think we're trying now to really maintain the right portion between growing staying efficient. So I assume it's going to be around 350. I think what we managed to do when looking on 2024, which is extremely amazing at Connecting, is growing ARR and in lot, but keeping in a way ethe same headcount or growing the headcount only in less than 15%. And I think this is pretty amazing because it's not only about just adding tons of people. That's the easy piece usually. Like saying, okay, let's put the budget in and just hire tons of people.
But I think you need to be very mindful and very concise about what roles you need, do you really need these people now and hire based on that mindset, it's harder because you need to provide results. You need to be extremely successful in the business performance, but you can't grow in the same amount of people. So how do you do that? How you maintain ratio between headcount to financial growth?
I think that a company that really succeeds in growing revenue, but keeping the resources similar to past year, I think that's a huge win. And that is also, when I look on the HRO in developing those companies, that's also a crucial part because it's always easy to look on hyper-going companies and say, yeah, like that's the challenging piece. But it's also challenging to try and maintain the ratio between growth and efficiency over time.
Aaron (15:00)
you shared some big themes as kind of some of your lessons learned is one, hire smart, two, enable and build only things that are relevant to the team. And enabling the team to be successful? You talked about the power and importance of having a strong team around you and the power of having a tribe of others who've been there before - mentors, coaches, peers.
What I'm wondering is one of the lessons that you've learned along the way? Like, can you share an example of something that at the time was really painful, but now influenced how you think about the way you lead teams.
Oshrat (15:35)
So I think one of the things that really pops up When joined Connecting, company was in a phase where it was after one of the It already grew from 70 to around 250, I think the financial environment got changed and we needed to look from within. But what really happened is that the growing pains of the company started to exist because when a company scales from 70 to 250, pains really come, whether it's leadership pains or culture pains or people really started to feel, okay, it's not a family anymore and started to ask questions on, okay, now it becomes a big organization.
How do I fit in? What is the expectation out of me in my role today? How do I still make an impact when the company really grew? And when I joined the company, those were the questions we were asking ourselves really tried in a way to ask along the way, who are the right people to help us grow the organization?
Who are the people and it relates to my team specifically and to other teams as well. But that was the question that we asked ourselves during the last two years. Are the people that we have today relevant to the next phase and to phase after? And how do we make sure that we understand on one hand how to help or enable, as you said, these people to really grow within the business and keep developing within the company, but on the same time understanding maybe that some people need to be replaced.
Some people need to move on because we need to build a team that can really take the company to the next phase of it. And I think those are the questions that as an HR leader, I keep asking myself and for my team as well. Like part of my team grew from within and they grew and they developed and it was amazing.
But at some point I asked myself, when I'm looking on the next phase of the company, are these the people I feel that have wide shoulders to rely on? And I can say, okay, they know how to navigate to the next phase. They know how a company of 400 and 500 and even 900 employees look like, and how do we as an HR shape the future of the company towards that phase?
And one of the things I did, and I made several changes within my team to support this strategy to make sure that on one hand, I enable some of the people to grow and keep developing, even though that was their first experience in such an environment, but mixing that with some other people, people that come with expertise that can really support the next phase of growth. I think it's not a one shot.
It's not that you as a leader and me as an HR manager of my team, my HR team. It's not that I would stop at one point and I would say, okay, I've done that research, I changed things a bit and that's it, we're good. In six months, in one year, I will need to reevaluate the situation all the time.
And I is something I do with my team and I also expect other leaders I support to do the same, to constantly research and analyze the status of your team, ask yourself, am I surrounded with the right people? Are these the people I feel that can contribute to the next phase of the company?
Aaron (19:04)
I love those two questions. Am I surrounded by the right people? And are these the people that can contribute to the next phase? And I think that one of the questions that was coming up for me was, yeah, how do you do that? Right? It's one thing to say, okay, I know we need to plan for the future. Like everyone talks about that.
We need to future-proof. we've grown up and we've scaled and now it's a little bit more uncomfortable and there's a bunch of things broken because we scaled but how do you go about getting through that awkward teenage year maturation phase as you scale? What other questions do you ask your team and do you ask the organization?
Oshrat (19:39)
So I think first of all, what are the problems we're trying to fix? What is the business expecting out of us? Because for example, if I say, I'll take for example, sales team, when I'm looking a year and a half back, the requirement was different, whether it's the number of demos they need to run, the level or standardization of how they need to show up in front of a customer.
And when you look a year and a half after, the game has changed, the requirements has changed. So part of the job we need to make as leaders is asking, this the level we're still requiring? Do we want to level up in a way? We do that with some processes that really map the talent and asking some questions. But it's not only map according to potential and performance like as a lot of people usually tend to do. It's also asking
Are these people, the fit for the next phase of the company? That's a question that every manager is being asked today at the company. And when you confront that question, there really begins the analysis because usually when you move so fast, you don't stop. You don't really stop and say, okay, let's review my team and then see how it goes.
But when someone really I wouldn't say forces, but really pushes managers to a level where they need to review their teams and ask questions, not only in terms of skills and vibe and culture fit, but also how does the role look today in terms of, again, roles and responsibilities? What are the deliverables we expect from those people within the company and how we can make sure that the people can really match those requirements or skills that we require. And if there's a gap, it means we need to make a change. So I think those are the techniques I'm using in a way.
Aaron (21:31)
One of the things that pops to mind, obviously, because we work with a lot of scaling teams too, and we need to lean on the managers to identify what's needed to think about the future of their role, then to be able to communicate that down. And oftentimes those managers are people who were just a friend of the person that they're managing, and now they're leading that team.
So how do you get them to make that shift? How do you enable your managers to be able to have those? If they're like, if they're that linchpin that gets some of the stuff moving, how do you enable them? What have you seen work? And maybe what have you seen not work? Because I'm curious also, I think we learn a lot from what we tried and what didn't work.
Oshrat (22:09)
Yeah, so first of all, the problem usually starts with the fact that they don't really know what they need or what they expect. So sometimes you need to bring them to a level where they first understand what the expectations are from themselves as managers and also from their teams. I can tell you that in several companies I worked for, when I asked some of the managers, what is the expectation? How do you know that your team is doing a good job? They didn't know to tell me.
So it starts with building that mindset and really understanding what am I being measured on? How am I setting or putting the right KPIs in place so I can measure myself as a manager and then I can know how to measure my team. So a lot of times we need to help them even start from the basics of really understanding. I can tell you that in one of my discussions with a manager in one of the companies I worked for,
And he told me at some point, yeah, my team didn't meet the goals this he seemed to me, don't know, very relaxed. And when I digested that after the conversation with him, I understood that he didn't even understand that his role as a manager to make sure that his team meets their ARR goals or KPIs.
And if you don't understand that as a manager, everything else doesn't really matter. So we need to start with that first, in my opinion, understand what the team is being measured on. And that is something that I think you can set in place and really help.
Think also,creating role definitions. One of the things we did at Connecting is creating very, very clear role definitions for managers from a people management point of view, but also from a professional point of view. And it was different, for example, for a customer success team leader to a sales team leader and R &D manager.
And when you understand what is your role definition and what is your team's role definition and how the machine of my team really works, you can monitor, you can track, the level of performance that you're expected to see and what's the difference. And then once we brought those managers to a level, they understand there's a gap or may not, but if there's a gap, now let's discuss, now let's understand what to do. What is the action plan based on that? Should we...
some people. Should we promote people we feel that have the competency to do that? But first, you need to understand what are we measured on? And I can tell you that is something I also do with my team. What are the KPIs? How do we measure ourselves according to plan?
Because in order for us to really enable managers to make the right decisions, to make tough choices at some times, we need to speak on a level which everyone understands. And KPIs and monitoring and processes usually help to build that.
Aaron (24:50)
Yeah, I love that you said, so interesting. We talk about in one of our mini boot camps companies will sometimes roll their eyes when we talk about this with them. Like, at the core of the problem is clarity on what's expected and clarity on goals. And I think you said in a really good way, it's not just are the KPIs, but how do we measure them? Because you could throw KPIs out there, but if people don't have a way to measure them or don't know what the measurement means.
It goes to waste. It's useless. And so what I'm hearing from you is the importance of clarity overall, clarity in your role, clarity in what's expected of you, clarity in your measures of success for yourself and for your team you need that in place before you can go do any other enablement.
Oshrat (25:33)
Yeah, but also what is my leadership mindset? What is my leadership perception? Usually when we onboard new managers that we promote within the company, one of the things we start with is take a paper or open a note and write to yourself, what do I believe in as a manager? What is my management perception? What are the values I want to build my team according to?
How will my team look at the winning team, is my winning picture as a manager? And that kind of simulation or exercise usually help them to really understand how to shape things up and really design their teams. But it also helped me as an HR to understand if they need some help with shaping the mindset, if the mindset is in the right place, or should we work on building that before we moving to more complex models of leadership?
Aaron (26:23)
So I have to ask you now, if you were opening up your notebook and looking at your notes, what is your management perception or picture?
Oshrat (26:32)
So I think it's a combination of leading with empathy, setting the high standards. I setting a culture of on one hand, where you set the tone and you set a standard for your people and people feel they need to level up all the time on one hand, but at the same time, know they have the flexibility to be open, to be vulnerable. think the power of vulnerability with high standards setting the bar for excellence. That's where I'm trying at least to go to. It doesn't really happen in real life because there's a lot of constraints sometimes and a lot of things that happens around you. if the way I look at it is setting the tone where I expect my team to be professionals, to keep learning all the time, to be attentive to details, to make sure that they know how to bring value to their stakeholders and ask themselves all the time. For example, just a discussion I had this week with one of my HRBPs in my team. I told her, listen, when you speak with a manager and you have a one-on-one with them, ask yourselves afterwards, what did they take from you?
What was the value they got from the conversation? Don't just enter to the one on one and speak with them because that's not enough. So that is an example for me to set the bar and to raise the standard. But at the same time, being very empathic, being very sensitive to their growth, to their pains, to understand how I can support them to be, again, a better version of themselves as professionals.
And I think it's hard. For example, when I set the bar for my team with, monitoring and some rhythms of tracking and reporting, they feel monitored in a way. But at the same time, they tell me, listen, I like it because now I feel that everything is organized and everything is on track.
So you always walk, in a very cautious way where on one hand you want to raise the bar on your standards, but keep the empathy within the team, keep the vulnerability, because if people only feel they need to be stressed out and they need to level up, but they don't have a place or room to share, ask questions, bring their pains, they wouldn't grow. And I think if I look even on my journey, and the managers I had, it was always a combination of one hand raising the bar and setting the tone to be exceptional, but at the same time being very sensitive and empathic.
Aaron (28:52)
I love that you say that because it's not an either or. It's not a, we drive for results and we expect greatness, And it's not, it's okay, we'll figure it out together. And I see how that could hold you back. It's that balance of the both. And so often we see with new managers and new leaders, they actually tend to lean to the empathetic without accountability. No one wants that. Like we all want some structure. We all want some standards to be set. And it doesn't mean we need to be micromanagers but it does mean we need to hold people accountable to a set of standards that might be bigger than themselves because then they can reach toward it. I love that you talk about the two. it's not just.
We hold them to high standards and we expect them to grow and develop and continue to evolve and elevate. But we to create space for them to be themselves and to make mistakes and to not constantly be on, on, on, on,
Oshrat (29:48)
Yeah, because if I'm only harsh and expects results, I will lose these people through the journey. They won't keep up. And if they keep up, they will be disengaged. So I need to make sure that I do both. And you said structure. think it's like with kids in a way, like, you know, when kids have the structure, the mind is organized. You feel that you know where you're heading. You know how you can deliver at your best.
Aaron (30:13)
And how do you instill those two paradigms, right? The structure and accountability and performance with the vulnerability and empathy as you think about, right, not just the teams that you lead, but led HR at these organizations multiple times over. And so how do you help the organization to
Oshrat (30:35)
So I think, again, was lucky enough to be organizations that the KPIs mindset or raising the bar or the excellence culture was in place. I always needed to balance the other piece in a way. But I think it starts with first creating those kind of definitions that create clarity, for example, role definitions or how the weekly routine looks like, or create scenarios or ceremonies within a month or a week that the team can really connect and measure themselves on one hand. But on the other hand, create events where leaders can be perceived as vulnerable, which means share some of their lesson learns as leaders, some mistakes they have made.
Even coming up to a team meeting and saying, listen, I decided to do X and now I understand I was mistaken. That's a huge power of vulnerability. Acknowledging and saying thank you to people for their contributions. A lot of leaders just move on fast without stopping and saying, hey, I noticed you did that and I really appreciate you doing that. Or you stayed up late and really helped to fix that bug.
Well done. I'm proud of you. Those little steps really encourage people to move on because now not only you expect them to move fast, you in a way gave them a boost of energy because they noticed someone saw them. So I think with little gestures along the way, I think that's the way of leaders to really show vulnerability or show sensitivity or empathy to their teams.
Aaron (32:06)
And it's so true that it's, just, when someone does something that is good or that we even expect them to do in their role, we just, okay, they did it. We don't acknowledge, we don't share, when someone doesn't do something that we expect them to do, then we dig deeper. And so it's just important to reinforce what you want to see. And something that I know to be true about the Israelis that I've worked with and being part Israeli myself, Israelis are incredible at driving and driving and expecting more and expecting more and kind of no nonsense, no bullshit.
Like, let's just move forward get things going. And I guess what I'm curious about from your perspective is what you just talked about is not the opposite of that, but it's a big challenge to that. It's a big challenge to like, all right, all right, let's go, let's go, let's go. And it's what's made Israel such a powerful startup
Think about the number of businesses that have started Israel and grown and been sold elsewhere and been super successful. And so what I'm wondering is how do you integrate that when you might almost have like a cultural aspect within some of the leaders in your organization? Because obviously your global organizations, but some of leaders in those organizations who are so drive heavy and may not naturally lead into that empathy and that vulnerability and that space.
Oshrat (33:21)
so I think it's hard and also the army environment we all grew up with really created a place where you focused on moving fast with no mercy in a way. And I think it's hard, but I think it's about bringing that to the stage and making that appear on discussions. I think, sometimes you need to fall in order to really learn. So once your best talented person in the team leaves the company, for example.
because you weren't there for them, not in developing them and not in really supporting them, then you feel and then you learn. And sometimes, unfortunately, we learn only from mistakes. So that's for me as a nature person, sometimes it helps to really build that kind routine within the company, but also finding champions. Like in every organization, even though you created a story of potential mindset of Israelis.
There is a bunch of Israelis that do believe in empathy, do believe in being vulnerable. And you also see, I mean, other places in Israel, whether it's the army or university, a lot of leaders that truly believe also in the power of focusing on what your people strong at and the power of strengths and how you can actually support those people.
The way I see it, you get the feedback from your team. And when you get that kind of feedback back and you see the drive it creates, you see that even once you said a good word to someone and then boom, the performance rose up, I think you understand the power of that. So choosing those moments orcollecting them and then showing them as success stories, but also learning from mistakes of people you lost along the way because you weren't there for them as a leader as you should have been.
And when I'm saying leadership, it's not only on the executive team, it's on levels of leadership. I think that really helps. And also trainings, like a lot of leadership trainings today focus on those aspects of leadership and
I always say that leadership is something that you can learn. It's a profession. a lot of people born as leaders, but the good news is that it's a profession and you can learn. So trainings really can provide those aspects to managers and teach them how to do that, even though it's not natural. And I always say, yeah, you can fake it at the beginning, but fake it until you make it, right? Like at some point it becomes your habits. you force yourself in a very mindful mindset, I think that comes naturally at some point.
Aaron (35:55)
There's nuggets that you shared in there. So many things. One is we're not all the we might be portrayed to be. Two is that the stories that we tell matter. And the stories that we tell and the stories that we talk about sit with people because people remember stories, not facts. And so when we tell stories about falling sink in. And when we tell stories about wins, they sink in.
And so I think that's such an important lesson. And the third gold nugget in there of the many, but the one that's highlighted to me is leadership is a profession. I've never heard it said that way. But when you think about it as a profession, you build it, you work toward it, you continue to elevate yourself. And there's not one point where you're like, right, I've hit the peak. a continual build. And so that's just a wonderful perspective to have.
Man, this is, I didn't know what direction we'd go in when we started. Which is why I love these conversations. This was just, this was wonderful. So many wonderful lessons learned from your journey across multiple different organizations. And so grateful for you to take some time and share your story and your journey and your lessons.
Oshrat (37:00)
Thank you so much and I'm so glad to be here. I feel I can speak forever with you creating that kind of a comfortable environment. So thank you for that space.
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